1.9 cdti error code P0002

[Tim Gilbert]

Hello all

I have been handed a car that's been into two garages for diagnosis and repair one could not get to the bottom of it the second ran tests and handed the following paperwork to the owner with no clear answers.

The fault with the car: it go.s into limp mode when driven and the rpm hits 1500 to 2000. why only when its driven i guess your asking for more demand from the car ? it has faulted a few times when stood still and just floored but it faults every time when travelling.

The error codes i have been given:

P0703 brake switch/brake light switch (malfunction)
P0002 fuel metering unit (outside specified range) this code showed up 3 x on test
P0090 Pressure control valve (control deviation positive)
P1125 Throttle valve control motor (Response faulty)
P0638 Throttle valve TV control unit (open circuit)

My background i am heavy plant engineer so know my way around computer management, engines ect.
This is my step daughters car i have offered to get it sorted as the money they have spent seems to of got them know were and am shocked that two so called experienced professional garages haven't even done the basic's of replacing the fuel filter. one of them even let the car run out of fuel on test .
I found your forums when looking up the swirl flap fault and reading through some of the other posts here am quite impressed with the knowledge base.

So i need your help and guidance please.
I realise the brake switch fault will not be relevant but want to give the hole picture.


Above is the rail pressure results when tested.

I have been told the fuel pump regulator and pressure rail have been changed but considering the filters not even been considered just want to start again.
I have not done anything as of yet.

I am also waiting for a fault code scanner to clear down everything again. fuel filter will be changed tomorrow.
Any advice and guidance will be greatly received.

Kind regards Tim.

[Witty]

My guess would be the crank sensor or the cam sensor, or maybe both.

But out that is just a guess.

My my vectra used to go into limp mode, the mechanic I used, replaced the crank sensor and all was good.

Never had had a problem after....

[derekh]

Hi Tim. Have just read your problems and have signed up to the forum to reply.
I'm having similar issues to you with a Signum 1.9cdti 150 on a 54 plate.
The car was my daugthers until 6 months ago when we agreed to swap for our 54 Mazda 3 as it was cheaper for her to run.
The car was running fine although the turbo whistled a bit too much so we decided to have the turbo refurbished. That turned out great and reduced the whistle to almost nothing and the car was running fine.
Within the last few weeks the car hasn't been starting on 1st turn of the key but seemed fine once running. Then about 10 days ago the engine seemed to cut out when travelling on a dual carriage way at 60mph. Pulled off into handy garage just ahead. It didn't want to restart at first but on second try it fired up and it ran fine for another 10 miles then went in limp mode as we turned of the M42.
There are no MIL or EML on at any time. Continued to have intermitten problems starting and going into limp mode although it always starts and runs after stopping.
Eventually this happened when we were able to drive to our usual mechanic without turning the engine off and still in limp mode. He connected his box of tricks which showed showed 2 x p0002 codes for the fuel metering solenoid performance/range and 1 for the erg valve. The egr valve isn't an issue as the car has had the valve blanked and disconnected for the last 5k without any issues. Not sure why but this car always had the emissions light on even with a brand new Pierburg egr fitted and all the s***t cleared out of the feed pipes, throttle body and manifold......long story with the manifold but that's long sorted.
Anyway the manchanic cleared the codes and engine suddenly began running as it should and drive fine afterwards. Mechanic said he suspected the fuel metering solenoid was at fault but had not come across a vauxhall with a faulty one though had seen lots of Peugeot 2.0hdi's needing them replacing.
Left the vehicle with him to get an MOT done as I intend selling it as have another newer vehicle now.
Vehicle sailed through MOT and no advisories! He's had limp mode come on two or three times whilst driving the car. He also dropped into a friend of his that has Bosch diagnostics but he couldn't find any faults stored except the p4000 which is always there. The Bosch man wants the erg valve fully working before he does anymore and I'm reluctant to spend £300ish on having it mapped out.
My mechanic is fairly knowledgable and I trusted his advise and am considering getting the HP fuel pump solenoid replaced as it is all that seems to have raised it's head code wise but worried that I'll end up in an endless spiral of replacing one thing after another chasing poor starting/limp mode issue.
I don't have a huge knowledge of mechanics but have been lots of my own repairs over the 40 years I've been on the road. Perhaps we could compare notes and maybe help point each other in the right direction.
I had been thinking it could be a faulty/bad crankshaft sensor as Witty said but doesn't seem to fit my situation.
I hoping to get hold of an small obd reader over the weekend and see what codes come up with that connected while it's being driven, hoping it will show the p0002 crop up again without anyother nasties.

[derekh]

Just been reading your post again Tim.
The throttle valves on these have mutiple problems I've read about and experienced. This would be the p1125 and p0638 codes you mention.
They are prone to having dry joints form on the circuit board inside the unit itself which are fairly easy to resolder. This would cause an open circuit to be registered which would likely be an intermitten thing as the break would likely close with the vibration from the engine.
The valve is also prone to filling with black engine oil that gets inside the unit forced down the spindle from the inlet pipes coming from the turbo. There are 3 clips from memory which can be released to allow access inside the unit which can then be drained and cleaned out, it will likely be swimming in black oil. Watch out for the thin rubber gasket as you take the plastic case off the main metal body. Working on this valve is best done having removed it from the end of the inlet manifold, awkward but fairly straight forward if your ok with spanners and such.
They are also prone to getting totally fowled with thick black deposits from the same source and also as this vavle sits right next to where the erg valve feeds black sooty exhaust into the inlet manfold. This is all part of the long story I mentioned with the erg valve and the manifold I sorted last year.
The throttle valve actual does very little except to reduced shudder when the engine is turned off, it is nothing to do with the go faster pedal! The butterfly is normally open and only operates/closes when the ignition is turned off to choke the air supply off.
Just be prepared to get covered in thick black

[Witty]

[MENTION=918]Tim Gilbert[/MENTION]

[Tim Gilbert]

Thank you Derekh and Witty for your input.
I have changed the fuel filter last week.
when doing so purposely left the filter pot empty and let the fuel pump fill it to see if it was working ok and it did with in the first 15 seconds key turn but from that point on had a massive problem getting fuel to the injectors.
Eventually after some persistence and also pinching off the return line i got fuel up and it started but was not running well and white smoking quite badly.
Turned it off had a screwdriver and gently held the swirl flap control bar and the car settled down.
I have made a spring loaded bar that just sits on top the swirl flap bar for the time being and it seems to work fine in holding the bar steady.

The current state of the car is it starts straight away and sits on tick over no problem you can rev it up steady to around 2/3rds throttle then it go's into limp.
If you floor it it go's into limp.
Its drivable and am able to push the car to quite a good speed and it pulls well but the minute you get to that 2/3rds throttle it go's into limp.
I have just finished work today so am hoping to take another look tomorrow i also have a bought a obd reader and am going to clear down the current generated codes get it to fault and go from there.

Thanks again for the input and will get back to you

[Tim Gilbert]

cleared the codes and Ran it up this morning all ok, could rev it up when stood still. took it for a drive and again as soon as its 2/3rds throttle went into limp P0002 P0090 coming up every time. had it sat with the key on and noticed what i asume is the throttle flap control twitching around. below image of the part. have taken it down the motorway pulling it up steady to 70 with out a ishew.


anyone had trouble with this bit?

[derekh]

Thanks for the update Tim.
Glad to hear you managed to get the car started and running ok. I can't get mine to go into limp just by flooring it, it only happens when you've been on the road for a while at some speed.
I'll be getting my hands on a obd reader this evening so will be getting it connected tomorrow and doing like you and taking it a drive to induce limp to come on and then hopefully see what codes crop up. I'm hoping it will just be the p0002and nothing else, well except the P0400 as thats always there.
Yesterday I decided to bit the bullet and ordered a fuel metering solenoid of ebay for £65, my mechanic got a price of £140 from EuroCarSpares which sounded way to much. I need to sell the Signum asap but not willing to list it yet with this fault on as I don't want any sort of come back after.
Regarding the swirl flaps/bar, last year we removed the manifold (awful job) and removed the swirl flaps totally and blanked themout with a kit just leaving the swirl actuator insitu but mechanically disconnected so it keeps the ecu happy. That made a huge difference to the amount of black smoke the engine produced when acceleraring. My Signum has over 186k on it so perhaps your's hasn't done all the miles and got the wear mine had back then. If your swirl bar is moving about alot you might have a problem with the mechanical linkage. The 3rd flap from the front of the engine is the one that connects under the manifold to the swirl motor and that in turn controls the ones ether side. I tried fitting a refurbished swirl bar but found a couple of the swirls semi seized to begin with but worked them free and though it worked it did nothing to reduce the black smoking, eventually cured when the swirl flaps where deleted.

[derekh]

Just noticed that our posts seem to have crossed paths.
I don't think the throttle flap should be moving about at all, thats except when the ignition is turned off, all other times it needs to be fully open. When the engine is running the butterfly should be open and stay open! Could be you have a problem with dry joints causing this issue. There is a "howto" on another forum showing you the problem in detail and the fix but you'll need to remove the throttle valve to do so.

[Tim Gilbert]

Hi Derekh the cars done 127k. any chance you could put the link for the "howto" on here. the throttle flap dose not seem right to me engine off ignition is on and you can hear the flap motor moving. i will take a pic of my swirl flap bar i fitted lol you will be impressed hahaha. am also considering removing the manifold and cleaning everything right out have you got to remove the high pressure pump to get the manifold off?. i notice you mention excessive black smoking i don,t have that problem. it only smoked the once after we got fuel up so could well of been just the fact of excess fuel from cranking it over.